Sam Brownback: Why I’m a Catholic for John McCain

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Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) thinks John McCain (R-Ariz.) has what it takes to be the next president of the United States. Brownback, who dropped his own bid for the White House this past October, recently endorsed McCain and, along with former Governor of Oklahoma Frank Keating, serves as co-chair of the Catholics for McCain National Leadership Team. According to a press release issued by McCain’s campaign, Catholics for McCain will “play an active role in educating and communicating with fellow Catholics about why John McCain is the best candidate to successfully promote Catholic values in the upcoming election.” Minutes after his flight landed in Iowa, Brownback spoke to Catholic Digest about McCain’s leadership, the importance of protecting life, and the value of eternal truths.

CD: Thanks for taking the time to call me today. How was your flight?

BROWNBACK: It was great. It’s 12 degrees out here, and about 12 mile an hour winds, and it’s cold!

CD: I believe it. Hopefully your reception will be warmer.

BROWNBACK: I think so. I’m looking forward to it. John’s been moving up in the polls, and I think he’s the right guy, so I’m excited about it.

CD: What do you hope the political atmosphere in Iowa will be like today?

BROWNBACK: Well, I hope it’s a positive upbeat action-oriented atmosphere, and I think we’ll find that. I’m hoping that a lot of people concerned about the international unrest will see John’s strengths. I hope people that are interested in the social issues will see his consistency. I’m hoping people concerned about fiscal issues will see his strengths. I think people, once they go though [the candidates] and they say, “Ok, I’ve really got to make a decision now,” that one pops up and John is it. That’s what it was for me, really, when making my own decision on whom to endorse. I knew John relatively well, and he really comes to the surface and he’s ready to lead, and those are important things.

CD: In the press release issued by the McCain campaign you were quoted as saying, “McCain has what it takes to lead this country.” In your opinion, what exactly does it take?

BROWNBACK: I think it takes strength. I think it takes moral fiber and character. And he’s been tested. I know John well. I’ve served with him for a number of years. I’ve served on committee with him. We’re at war. He’s ready to lead as commander in chief. The strategy we’re employing now in Iraq is the McCain strategy. I just think when you put all those pieces together he’s got what it takes in experience: he’s got military experience, he’s a fiscal conservative, he’s been voting pro-life for 24 years, he will give us judges that don’t want to legislate. That is key. Plus he matches up the best against Hilary Clinton or Barack Obama, either one, in the fall. And we can’t lose this time, because if we do we’re going to get set back a justice or two on the supreme court, from having a different court that I think would look more correctly at the issue of whether a right to an abortion is in the Constitution, which it is not. And that, to me, is a paramount issue.

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CD: The issue of abortion was brought up in the recent United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) document “On Faithful Citizenship,” and it’s an issue that the bishops have often put at the forefront of the Catholic voter’s mind. However, McCain also supports research on human embryos left over from fertility treatments and supports the death penalty for federal crimes. Why do you think it is so hard to find a candidate that supports what Cardinal Bernadin has described as the “seamless garment” of life?

BROWNBACK: Well, that’s a good question, but I really think it takes somebody spending a lot of time examining the issues. That’s what it was for me. I was supportive of the death penalty for many years until I spent a lot more time studying the topic. I think in John you see somebody that’s made commitments and stands by them. He’s voted pro-life for 24 years, other than the stem cell [issue], and I think there was a fetal tissue issue about 12 or14 years ago. And I’m working on him on the stem cells, and I’m very hopeful that this last breakthrough on these embryo-like cells will put this issue to rest. I’m hopeful this is the bookend on it. The death penalty is another matter. That one, I think, it’s going to take more of a push. The other one on the seamless issue of life that I’m growing more concerned about is the end-of-life issues, and that’s one that John’s been good on.

CD: In what ways?

BROWNBACK: [McCain is] supportive of life and not of right-to-die type of legislation or efforts, and supportive of life as sacred — at the beginning and all the way up to the natural end. That issue hasn’t been developed as much lately, but it’s coming.

CD: The “On Faithful Citizenship” document also stated that it could be acceptable for a Catholic voter to refrain from voting at all should both candidates have pro-choice views. Would you agree?

BROWNBACK: I’m certainly not going to take on the bishops on moral or religious issues, but it seems to me, as a public official, you want people to vote, and it’s the right thing to do. You pick people that are closest to your position and that move forward your agenda. And that’s what I see in John on life, and also on immigration issues. He’s taken a very principled and life-affirming position. And he’s stood there and taken a lot of heat for it. But he has stood that ground, and I think rightfully so, noting that we’re all God’s children.

CD: He seems to be a person who’s known for stating what he believes despite the political consequences.

BROWNBACK: And fighting for it.

CD: Do you think this has helped or hurt his campaign?

BROWNBACK: Both. He’s just doesn’t want to be seen as political and you can see, at times, like on the immigrations topic, it’s hurt him. You’ve seen at times, early on in the surge effort, it hurt him. Now, [it’s] more of a help. But I think that’s also the sort of leadership you want for the country — somebody that looks at the issues and then fights for what he believes is right.

CD: In the “ On Faithful Citizenship” document from the USCCB, the bishops call for a rejection of “politics based on ‘powerful interests, partisan attacks, sound bites and media hype,’ calling instead for ‘a different kind of political engagement.’” Do you see McCain as being able to offer America this different sort of politics?

BROWNBACK: I do, from the standpoint that I think there’s just a hunger in the country to make the government work for the people, and to set aside the partisan bickering to get things done. John reaches across the aisle very well and often, and that’s been one of the hallmarks of his service in the senate — good relationships across the aisle and working on big topics with people on the other side. [Senator Joe] Lieberman is an independent now, but I think that’s why he endorses John McCain. He sees somebody that can work across the aisle. He sees somebody that’s strong on the war on terrorism, and says this is the sort of guy I can believe in and I can work with, even if I don’t agree with him on everything. John’s been very good about working across the aisle.

CD: But it also strikes me that his work with senators such as Lieberman or Ted Kennedy often angered conservatives, while his stance on the Iraq war and support for president Bush angered liberals. Is it possible to really work together on these issues in a way that doesn’t alienate one side or the other?

BROWNBACK: I think so. As a matter of fact, I think it’s what people want us to do. They want us to believe strongly in our topics, but they also want us to make the government work — work for the people. That’s what John has done, and continues to do, and I think that’s what he can do as president.

CD: You mentioned the Iraq war earlier, and one issue surrounding that came up in a June 2007 meeting between President Bush and Pope Benedict XVI in which the pope expressed his concern for the safety of Christians in Iraq. What do you feel can be done to address this issue?

BROWNBACK: It’s something I’ve been very concerned about. You’ve seen a lot of ancient Christian population fleeing out of Iraq. I think some are starting to come back, and I think they’re a canary in the salt mine witness as to your security environment overall. And if the security environment overall improves, they’re less vulnerable and they’re more able to be there. I think that’s why you’re seeing some starting to move back. We’ve just got to maintain and help with a strong stable security environment. That’s first and foremost in Iraq. The place can rebuild itself once it can reestablish security, and that security exists for Muslims, Christians, people of all sorts of faith.

But that’s been a terrible situation, and unfortunately that’s been a terrible situation in much of the Islamic world, where Christian populations have been driven out, persecuted, killed, to the point where your percentage of population that has been Christian in many Muslim countries has plummeted over the last 20 years. I’ve held hearings on this, and I think it really hurts the Islamic world, too, because it says that others who don’t act or believe as we do aren’t welcome, and that hurts a country, it doesn’t help it.

CD: Do you see McCain as being able to take action to change this situation?

BROWNBACK: I do, from the standpoint that he is for a strong, secure environment and that’s going to be the best ticket to deal with that problem of people being persecuted for their faith.

CD: Do you think his current support for President Bush, despite widespread disapproval of the way in which Bush has handled the Iraq war, will hurt or help him in his effort to earn the nomination?

BROWNBACK: Up until the last couple of months, it was a great hindrance, but I think, to me, the sense was that amongst the American people they didn’t want to lose in Iraq, but they didn’t see us on a track to win. I think now more people are saying, ‘I can see a way we can win this from the standpoint of a stable Iraq.’ And so I think it becomes more of an asset, now, particularly in people that might vote on security issues. This is an unstable world — Benazir Bhutto was just assassinated in Pakistan — you want somebody that’s strong on foreign policy and strong on military leadership, and John McCain is the strongest in the field.

CD: You mentioned his years of experience. He’s now 71. If nominated and elected he’d be the oldest person to become president. Do you think this puts him at a disadvantage?

BROWNBACK: I think it’s an advantage. He’s got a high energy level. He’s got a wealth of experience, and people that he knows around the world, and people know him. I think it’s an advantage for him. Maybe I look at it differently than others, but after that amount of time and the experiences that he’s had, you tend to have figured out what you are and what works and what doesn’t, and I think you’re better able to do things that work. Ronald Reagan was an older man when he was elected, but people entrusted decisions [to him]. They know that the experience is there and the experience is deep and the experience is rich.

CD: Now you yourself have been fairly vocal about your own faith experience and its effects on your life. What role if any do you feel an individual’s faith should play in politics?

BROWNBACK: Well we all have values, and I see no reason that those values that shape my faith shouldn’t be brought into the public square and debated and discussed and presented and decided upon. As a matter of fact, I think it’s the best place for us to get a basic set of values. It’s very consistent with the American experience, where our founders and leaders since have been people with a deep sense of moral conviction and faith, seeing the Judeo-Christian ethic as an ethic on which you can build a very strong, open, free-oriented country. I think what I bring forward is just the way we’ve basically been as a country for most of our history. It’s only been recently that we’ve been trying to throw faith out of the public square. Up until the 1960’s or 70’s, it was a vibrant, central [part], and I contend it still is.

Let me tell you, a guy at the airport grabbed me just before I got on this last flight and he was working for the airlines and he was just saying to me, ‘I don’t care how a person believes, at all, but we built a country on an ethic. And you don’t have to believe in the faith or anything but on the values of it — that you respond and you support life and you believe in liberty and freedom, you believe in justice — and that these are things that we then build a strong country around that ethic.’ You don’t have to believe the faith, but the ethic is what we built this nation around, and I think that’s true and I think that’s something we ought to continue to do.

CD: Do you find yourself hearing this a lot as you travel the country?

BROWNBACK: He put it as good as I’ve heard it recently, because what we’ve seen most lately is a lot of people of faith drawn into the public square because they felt like their values were being pushed out. But what we haven’t seen as much are people that weren’t particularly motivated by faith but see the value of that ethic, and I think you’re going to start seeing more and more of that, as they say, ‘Well, what’s the other choice?’ And the other choice is a less well-developed ethic that moves more situational, that’s less anchored in moral truth. Yes it’s an ethic, but its more situational and its more malleable and it’s less secure.

CD: And have you found that your role as a senator has influenced your own faith life?

BROWNBACK: The eternal truths don’t change, situations change. I think a lot of what I try to do is just take eternal truths and apply them into the situations of the day. People like Martin Luther King Jr. and Lincoln — and I am certainly not in the league of people like them — but I think that’s what they brought in their era and time — eternal truths applied to the situation of their day. I think that’s a good place to be.

CD: Do you think that there is only one right candidate for Catholics trying to apply eternal truths to the political situation today?

BROWNBACK: I think there’s one that best fits Catholic theology in practice on the current issues of the day, and I think that’s John. I don’t think it’s a perfect fit. The joke is that since I’ve dropped out there’s not a perfect candidate — but that’s a joke, because I got beat by everybody in the field, so I obviously wasn’t a perfect fit. You aren’t going to find perfect fit, and there’s nobody that’s perfect. If angels governed men we’d have perfect leadership. We don’t, so you’ve got what you can work with. And I think this is a guy who, as far as tough issues of the day — life, and a number of others — has done a good job applying these Catholic ethics to the situation.

CD: Do you find yourself frustrated at no longer being in the race yourself?

BROWNBACK: I do. We spent a lot of time and effort, and I care about these topics a great deal. I wish to be out there and bringing it forward, but it wasn’t to be and we’re doing fine. In God’s economy there are no losses. He just uses each experience to shape you and form you for something down the road. A couple of years or 5 years from now, I say, ‘Oh wasn’t that a good thing that I did that, because that then prepared me for this.’

CD: So your faith has helped you with that as well.

BROWNBACK: Absolutely.

CD: And what do you see yourself being prepared for now? Is another run for president in your future?

BROWNBACK: Could be. The beauty about God is that most of the time He doesn’t give you real clear guidance about what’s going to happen in the future, but He gives you a real clear way to handle it, and that’s a big part of the faith journey. You don’t know what’s going to be out there, but you have the faith that He’s going to be there with you. CD

Kerry Weber is associate editor of Catholic Digest.